Let's Get Mythic

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Let's Get Mythic

Post by Oblivion on Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:27 pm

Just an FYI.

You guys just hit 6th level. We started at 2nd, which put you ahead of the game, AND we've been leveling very quickly. All in all, you guys are already outpacing the intended leveling curve of this AP: Kingmaker expects you to be 4th level at the defeat of the Stag Lord and beginning Rivers Run Red, and 7th at the end of that chapter. At this rate hitting 7th you'll likely only be partway through RRR, not even halfway I'd imagine.

No, I'm not changing the leveling curve, nor am I docking XP. I'm embracing the fact that you guys are going to be ahead. Enemies from this point on will, as I have done thus far, be adjusted up to challenge you rather than forcing you back down. This in turn will make them more powerful, which means you get more XP, which means you continue leveling faster... you see the cycle by now.

However, this does present an issue. Kingmaker is made to go up to 18th; I'd added a chapter between 5 and 6 with the intent of earning you those spare two levels to get you to 20th by the end. It's looking like you guys are going to go beyond that... possibly well beyond.

Luckily, next month Paizo will be releasing the playtest rules for Mythic Adventures - the closest thing they'll be doing to Epic rules. I'll explain in more detail once I have more information (IE When the playtest itself is released), but I fully intend on using the Mythic rules in the manner of Epic levels - every post-20th level you take you can either spend on another class level (thus multiclassing if you've reached 20, or finishing out your class if you've already multiclassed like Jaekah) or you can ascend 1 Mythic tier. Enemies, in turn, will be also given Mythic tiers to keep up the challenge level.

Of course, depending on how you guys feel about this and what options the playtest presents us, we may simply ignore it, or stop leveling at 20 even if the game is not yet complete, or come up with some other course of action. But thought I'd go ahead and give you a heads-up, since I learned that the playtest will be beginning in early-to-mid November.

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Luminiere Solas wrote:i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Swifto on Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:54 pm

I'm 100% for this.

Greater challenges rather than docking us down? Hell yeah, please do!

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by belladonna on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:27 pm

I'm just wary of hitting a point where everything is crit/sneak immune and other cheese stuff. Otherwise, lets go for it!
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Oblivion on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:07 pm

PF is REALLY hard to find stuff that's immune to precision damage. It's pretty much limited to Elementals, Oozes, and Incorporeal things.

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Luminiere Solas wrote:i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Swifto on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:41 pm

Not to mention, the Bestiary has some nasty things in it.

Failing that, there's always the Tome of Horror's.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Oblivion on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:44 pm

I have Tome of Horrors! >=D

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Luminiere Solas wrote:i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Swifto on Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:46 pm

So does my local group.



o ye gods that gaze unto its pages.....

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Face on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:07 pm

Bring it on.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Oblivion on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:33 am

Mythic playtest comes out 11/14 and lasts through the end of January. I'll get a link to the free download ASAP!

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Luminiere Solas wrote:i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Oblivion on Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:22 pm

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8voq/discuss?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Mythic-Adventures-Playtest#tabs

Mythic Playtest is up! Download please!

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Luminiere Solas wrote:i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Swifto on Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:33 pm

Downloaded. Will have to read later.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Oblivion on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:56 am

Swifto wrote:Thankfully I had managed to snag it whilst it was fresh.

Read a bit of it at work, and I very much like it. It adds a nice dose of power to someone of any level. You could be a Tier 1 Mythic and a Level 1 Fighter, and you wouldn't be all that astronomically more powerful than a typical level 1 Fighter, but you'd still be a cut above. Yet if a Level 20 Wizard had Tier 10 Mythic, my god he would be, well.... The last step before godhood itself.


Very interesting. I'd love to see this used in Fimbulwinter Come.
Moved it in here. Let's not discuss other campaigns in the open forum please. >_>

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Luminiere Solas wrote:i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Swifto on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:30 am

So if we take a level in Mythic instead of a level in our class; how does that affect our BAB, saves, and HP progression? Same as our previous class, or do they not go up at all?

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Ladybug on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:49 am

I think the pdf mentions HP - a set number for each tier gained. I don't remember any saves or BAB.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by belladonna on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:55 pm

No AB, no saves, and only a set amount of HP. Basically, replacing levels with tiers is kinda a no-go for anyone that needs a BAB (i.e. the magus and rogue). Full BAB characters can afford a slight hit. All in all, I see these as either "epic" levels, or templates to add on as we level. Otherwise, we'd need to add BAB, saves, and hit die. I already gave my full feedback on the situation that arises when using the "replace level" option with mythic tiers.

I'm looking at Heirophant and suddenly seeing Elegy able to heal anyone within 30' instead of needing to be beside them, heal constantly, and so much more. Slight rewording of some of the domain abilities would allow them to be used for revelations.

Archmage Errol: Holy crap, that will be scary. No more defensive casting or concentration checks (provided it's not his highest spell level). Providing a DM rule that one of the Archmage Arcanas could be done in Errol's off-hand (like his magus class ability that allows him to cast in his off-hand), and he has an attack that can bypass any DR, and still do his normal physical attacks with Red.

Champion Takeshi: If I read this right, one of his base champion abilities allows him an additional attack (an attack at full BAB as a swift action). His already nasty damage jumps higher. Critical master is going to be insane. Granted, he doesn't crit as often as others, but if he gets keen weapons...

More review upcoming.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Ladybug on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:16 pm

Actually, I find Hierophant rather lackluster and more geared toward druids and classes with a familiar or animal companion (and that Servant of Balance nonsense is just...why would I ever take a feature that negates my crits?). If anything, I'm burning a mythic feat on dual path Hierophant/Trickster or just going straight up Trickster and spamming Path Dabbling to get a few of the nicer Hierophant abilities.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by belladonna on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:45 pm

Mh, while some of the abilities are geared that way, saying that it's more geared toward that is negating that the majority of the Heirophant abilities are NOT geared towards druids. Yes, some abilities are geared toward it but hardly the majority. Most divine casters are healers, buffers, and summoners.

As for the Servant of Balance: The ability to NOT have a crit against them may outweigh their desire to crit, especially if they don't attack. I had a healer once upon a time who absolutely refused to attack things, as any sentient being deserved life in her view. Crits are actually rather lackluster things for anyone without a crit deck and your crazy dice rolls. Razz

The determining factor between the two paths probably should come down to what the mythic power bonus they get is.

First, Heirophant gets mythic spells without having to burn a feat. Then there's the mythic power bonuses. Inspired spell lets you cast any spell on the oracle spell list, even if you don't know it. Recalled blessing essentially allows you to cast any spell currently on your known spells and have it do slightly better than normal. These bonuses, btw, are not available through path dabbling.

Then there are the trickster mythic power bonuses. Deadly throw, Fleet charge, and Surprise attack. Elegy doesn't use thrown weapons, doesn't charge. This means the only bonus she would even possibly use is Surprise attack, which doesn't give her any bonuses. Compared to what she loses on the mythic powers from Heirophant, Elegy would actually be WORSE off with trickster than heirophant by the base ability.

Then we get to the trials.

I'm kinda confused why trickster is more Elegy than Heirophant. She's not a fighting character, relies on her spells and oracle abilities, and isn't a skill-using character (other than social skills and knowledge checks). The nice skill bonuses from trickster are easily replaced by the universal path abilities that add +20 to Cha checks or +20 to Int checks. By using those path abilties with Heirophant, she becomes a spellcasting force to be reckoned with as well as having a HUGE bonus to her social and knowledge skills.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Swifto on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:07 pm

I was looking at Guardian for Jaekah, none of the path abilities really seem to fit. Yeah, they're nice abilities, but... None really suit 'him', y'know?

Most of'em suit Jack to a T, but for Jaekah, methinks I'll keep going with Cavalier.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Ladybug on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:19 pm

Here's what I've picked out as "Ooh, shiny!"

Hierophant -
Divine Surges:
Inspired Spell
Recalled Blessing

Path abilities:
Endless Power
Enduring Blessing
Faith’s Reach
Itemcraft
Otherworldly Insight
Power Current
Sustained by Faith
Water of Life

So that's eight abilities. For ten tiers. I suppose nine if I opt for the additional divine surge ability.
The rest are mostly animal companion or domain based, and the domain ones are by and large far too specific to really see that much use even if they were reworded to allow mysteries.


Trickster:
Trickster Attacks:
Surprise Strike

Path abilities:
Assured Skill
Critical Skill
Critical Tinkerer
Enduring Elixir
Fickle Attack
Itemcraft
Majestic Countenance
Path Dabbling
This Might Just Work
Unwavering Skill

That's ten. Trickster may be more skill focused, but path dabbling or the dual path feat lets me pick from both lists. Dual path would also let me have mythic spells and a first tier divine surge/trickster attack from each.

Not to mention this thread, which Obliv told me he'd gladly allow and that one of the Paizo execs said they might be looking at for the final version, which happens to have some nice toys for Tricksters. Honestly, the stuff in there, the real trickster spirit of lore type of benefit, is probably the biggest factor in why I'd want to dual path it. I mean...Stolen Voice is just beautiful.


My other reason is pure RP. Elegy's a fey oracle, and it would make sense that if she got phenomenal cosmic powers itty bitty living space, they'd be fey-flavored. And what embodies that more than a trickster?

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Oblivion on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:47 pm

Actually I will be rescinding that permission, mostly because there's a TON of stuff for Trickster if you add that... and nothing new for the other paths.

That'll change, and I'll allow rebuilds/swaps/whatever, when the full book comes out next August.

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Luminiere Solas wrote:i don't get why people see D&D or it's derivatives as medieval european.

you have medieval knights wearing rennaiscane era armor, wielding roman era falcatas, worshipping greek gods, traveling with native american shamans wearing the hides of saharan beasts, who transform into prehistoric dinosaurs who are accompanied by modern japanese schoolgirls wielding Tokugawa Era Daisho and Wearing black pajamas, and old men wearing robes and pointed hats who chant mathematical equations to control reality, on a journey to kill brain eating space aliens, giant sentient firebreathing spellcasting reptiles and sentient jello.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Ladybug on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:49 pm

Bluh bluh. I'm still inclined to dual path it if only for the path dabbling - if you're wanting Elegy to get buffs, Marshal has some nice stuff for that. She could go primarily Hierophant and use Trickster to cherry-pick from every list.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by belladonna on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:08 pm

And you're not looking into taking Feat of Charisma or Feat of Intelligence? *shrug* +20 to any of her primarily used skills sounds too nice to ignore. I know it's why I'm looking at Feat of Dexterity.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Ladybug on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:24 pm

I hadn't decided. I was just looking at the paths on their own merits. I'll decide on whether I want the universals once we actually get to mythic.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by belladonna on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:31 pm

Ah gotcha.
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Re: Let's Get Mythic

Post by Ladybug on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:42 pm

I do know that I'm definitely grabbing Mythic Crafter.

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Re: Let's Get Mythic

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